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 Post subject: Technique of fast fast (fast !) playing used by young Yolngu
PostPosted: 10.11.2013, 17:37 
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Joined: 27.03.2013, 11:26
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Location: France, voyez vous...
Lately I've puzzled over a technique that the young generation of Yolngu yidaki players use A LOT. To my french ears, I would roughly transcribe it into writing as some kind of "dith-da-da".
Adam M*rr*l*g* was very proficient in playing it, you can listen to him shredding a row of these "dith-da-da" during the very first seconds (0:00 - 0:04) of this video, and at several others moments (between 0:53 and 0:57, or 2:13 - 2:16).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCH5iepiq7o

I tried to emulate it in different ways, but none of them has totally convinced me for now :
  • a fast "dith-dhirrl" with the two beats of the "dhirrl" (dhi - the tongue goes back from the interdental position, and rrl - the tip of the tongue flicks the gum as it goes retroflexed) strongly stressed to sound as separate and hard as possible.
    Here is my attempt :
    Attachment:
    File comment: (please forgive the bad quality of the recording, it's just a sample to give you an idea of what I am talking about)
    Dithdada-Test1.mp3 [197.55 KiB]
    Downloaded 183 times

  • a kind of "dith-dhu-dhu". To keep it fast and smooth, the tongue can't go back to the interdental position (and cut off very quickly the drone) as you would do for a slow dith-dhu. Here, dith and dhu-dhu are all done with the tongue slighty retroflexed... So the tricky part is that the tip of the tongue's got only a very small room around the gum ridge to move and to develop powerfull accents — especially the dith.
    Here is my other attempt :
    Attachment:
    Dithdada-test2.mp3 [168.57 KiB]
    Downloaded 235 times

For both of these techniques, I don't think it's possible to breath at the end of the -dhu or the -dhirll if you want to keep the special groove of the structure.

I already asked that question to some trad' style players I know, but the answers they gave me were hesitant and not very conclusive.
So... Any idea or opinion about that ? Which one seems to be the closest to the truth to you ? :)

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Fabulous secrets were revealed to me the day I held aloft my magic yidaki and said : « By the power of hard tongue ! I have the Poweeeeer ! »


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 Post subject: Re: Technique of fast fast (fast !) playing used by young Yolngu
PostPosted: 11.11.2013, 12:00 
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Joined: 20.03.2006, 10:41
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Location: UK
In my view there is no breathing in the really fast intro sections, with the breaths coming in later on in the vamp as illustrated in your clips. It's the relaxed but rapid tonguing supported by diaphragmatic accents which really give this style its flavour and it's very impressive indeed.

Kyle


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 Post subject: Re: Technique of fast fast (fast !) playing used by young Yolngu
PostPosted: 11.11.2013, 18:49 
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Joined: 13.10.2009, 14:23
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in my opinion it's a fast "dith dhu dhirl" without taking a breath.


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 Post subject: Re: Technique of fast fast (fast !) playing used by young Yolngu
PostPosted: 11.11.2013, 20:54 
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Joined: 27.03.2013, 11:26
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Location: France, voyez vous...
kdidj wrote:
In my view there is no breathing in the really fast intro sections, with the breaths coming in later on in the vamp as illustrated in your clips. It's the relaxed but rapid tonguing supported by diaphragmatic accents which really give this style its flavour and it's very impressive indeed

Thank you Kyle, you're confirming what I was thinking. :)
I listened to my attempts very carefully several times and the second vamp (dith-dhu-dhu) is the closest in my opinion to what M*rr*l*g* was doing. Just have to train and train again to develop that soft tongue and get it fast, strong and powerfull !

However...
nitupsaar wrote:
in my opinion it's a fast "dith dhu dhirl" without taking a breath.

You may be right for some Yolngu players : Luke Djamanggi Bukulatjpi (on this video, between 2:24 and 2:28 for example) rather seems to do a fast dithu dhirrl. I guess there's not an only way to get that result, it depends a lot on the player...

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 Post subject: Re: Technique of fast fast (fast !) playing used by young Yolngu
PostPosted: 11.11.2013, 22:45 
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Joined: 26.04.2006, 11:53
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Location: Neuchatel / Switzerland
I heard about this question recently :wink:
Agree that 2nd attempt sounds better and no breath needed to make it.
By the way you have a good sound on the dhrill...


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 Post subject: Re: Technique of fast fast (fast !) playing used by young Yolngu
PostPosted: 12.11.2013, 16:05 
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Joined: 27.03.2013, 11:26
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BABU wrote:
I heard about this question recently :wink:

Indeed ! :mrgreen: It's you who gave me the idea to consider this vamp a kind of "dith-dhu-dhu" with a slightly retroflexed tongue rather than a simple "dithu-dhirrl".

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