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 Post subject: Fast Rhythms
PostPosted: 12.05.2010, 08:22 
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Joined: 08.05.2010, 19:53
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Hi folks

I was wondering if someone out there could please give me a few pointers on those super fast rhythms ? Demo at 3 mins 18 into this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5y1_SCx5 ... re=related

any info about these would be amazing as I feel I have com e across a stumbbling block with my playing.

I think the rhythm I am talking about is known as the Wobble I have seen other video's on Youtube but none of them really explain what is going on weather it be tongue movement breathing or something else.

Please Please HELP :)


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 Post subject: Re: Fast Rhythms
PostPosted: 12.05.2010, 10:11 
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Location: France
Hehe... the famous French "double wobble" by Gauthier Aubé (at the time he was dreadlocked!).

You've got to inhale with puffed cheeks and make a "wobble" (or two in this case) simultaneously to the inhalation.
A "wobble" can be any movement inside your mouth : tongue, cheeks or jaw.
A "double-wobble" is a combination of two of these movements during the same inhalation : tongue+cheeks or tongue+jaw or chekks+jaw or tongue+tongue or cheeks+cheeks, etc...
It allows to keep on playing fast while still breathing relatively calmly.
So it allows very fast rhythms without too much physical effort.

I can't do that movement but there are lots of discussions about it on the French Didj forum.
This movement is at the opposite of the trad' style concerning CB.
In trad style, you CB with your diaphragm... here, only with your cheeks.
In trad style, you "pull" the sound while inhaling... here you kind of "double-push" it.

Check out Zalem's videos on YouTube too, he's another French young master of that perticular technique :wink:

And here are both of them (Gauthier and Zalem) : Link

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 Post subject: Re: Fast Rhythms
PostPosted: 12.05.2010, 11:14 
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Joined: 08.05.2010, 19:53
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Hi Ahaw

Thank you for your reply

I think I get what you are saying now about the wobble as some times i use my tongue cheek's and jaw without even knowing I'm doing it. and some times I feel the wobble starting to happen I guess I need to home my skills in this part so it don't just happen by accident. and most of all build up my speed.

Thanks Again.

Andy


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 Post subject: Re: Fast Rhythms
PostPosted: 14.05.2010, 14:51 
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Joined: 05.06.2008, 00:03
Posts: 65
Famous French 'Double Wobble' by Gauthier?????

This is beautiful stuff! I was playing this 'double wobble' in 2000!!!!! discovered it by myself, recorded it in 2003, and now it has a name and an inventor...?


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 Post subject: Re: Fast Rhythms
PostPosted: 14.05.2010, 15:00 
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Joined: 20.03.2006, 10:41
Posts: 1503
Location: UK
Hey Zed,

I reckon every player 'discovered' the double wobble at some point in their didj career (often soon after mastering circular breathing)! I suppose youtube has created 'heroes' for the unitiated who are unaware of the goings on in the didj world before the birth of the internet's current era of influence!

Hope all is well in Mexico.

Kyle


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 Post subject: Re: Fast Rhythms
PostPosted: 14.05.2010, 17:03 
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Joined: 24.02.2007, 00:24
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Location: France
He doesn't claim to be the inventor, nor do I...
Just that his style influences the majority of the French players.
I guess we could talk about different didjeridu "schools".
Deutsch school was influenced by Lies' type of playing (more rhythmic than harmonic), French school is influenced by Zalem and Gaultier and that particular jaw/cheek technique (more harmonic than rhythmic).
I guess in Anglo-Saxon countries, didj players have language facilities that help them get to the source and learn trad' Yolngu style.

Another thing... the double wobble (DW) is very tricky, it is not just two wobbles... it is at the same time that you breath in.
It is a trick that allows you to play fast while inhaling slowly.
I can do two "wobbles" easily, like any player... but I just cannot do them while breathing !
It feels very un-natural for me at this stage of learning.
In fact, it seems like a regression to me !
Like all Balandas, I used to CB with puffed cheeks... and now I CB with my diaph'.
For DW you've got to get back to cheek-puffing again and I both cannot and am not interested in that :(

Finally, of course other players must have "discovered" that technique before, and of course YouTube and forums contributed to create these "heroes" (as well as their respective solo albums)... nevertheless, these two guys have made a speciality of this technique and in my opinion they took it to a higher sphere, whether you like that sphere or not.

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 Post subject: Re: Fast Rhythms
PostPosted: 14.05.2010, 18:38 
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Hi Kyle,

Nice to hear from you mate, and hope all is well with the growing family. Totally in agreement with reference to your reply. I guess it's also beautiful to know that someone, somewhere, has 'developed' a style without any outside source / internet influence, only to discover, it's been 'played' so to speak. It's the old question if that person has become an 'inventor'. Maybe it's just critical thinking, and passion alone wanting to discover what these sticks can do in a contemporary form. I've always had the utmost respect for people finding their own playing, and technique, only to discover also, that someone else did that too.
Funny line you wrote...'Internet Heros'... I guess which in turn, it has created; titles and names give birth to an identity...

Mexico is great, hot, but great. I'm wanting to come back for Christmas, because believe it or not, I miss the cold!
Peace,
Zed.

Hi Ahaw,

Just want to be clear that I am fully aware with reference to your saying the said person does not claim to be an 'inventor'. I was just quite intrigued by your opeing introductory line: The Famous French Double Wobble by said person. Maybe I took it 'off the cuff', but just find it ironic that, boom! it's right there, the origin, the technique, person... and I remember Rob Mantz hearing my recording, telling me it sounded like a building site! Ha, oh my educational didj years...
You don't need to explain the technique, as I am fully aware of it. If it's a style that influences a particualr culture, then I wish them well on their chosen direction. I've heard the 'sphere', and to be honest, with years that have passed, I don't appreciate the level it's been taken, and I say that in a sincere manner. I was an absolute fanatic of contemporary style, and pushed the instrument with a relentless obsession. That same relentless obsession was needed to unpractice (that a word?) everything, and focus on trad foundation technique.
I'm impressed, very impressed of what contemporary players have done, but no one has really blown my head. What does it for me is just listening to Y*m*n* or Laga... What I hear is timeless. Tradition can't become dated.
All the very best,
Zed.


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 Post subject: Re: Fast Rhythms
PostPosted: 14.05.2010, 18:48 
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Joined: 24.02.2007, 00:24
Posts: 189
Location: France
Seems like there's no need to argue : we're all saying same thing :wink:
My opening sentence "famous French touch" thing was to be interpreted as a joke.
Concerning the "spheres"... well I too prefer trad' spheres by faaaar !
Maybe because their multi-millenarian traditions already passed through "double-wobble" and other "wigadoowaks" techniques long ago and left them aside to concentrate on the very best that we can now hear. :D

Where are you living in Mexico ? Ciudad or the country ?
I am a great admirer of Mayan culture since a long time !!!
Their glyphic writting even influenced a lot my drawing style :D (Codex Tro-Cortesianus... heard of it ?)

Cheers amigo !

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 Post subject: Re: Fast Rhythms
PostPosted: 14.05.2010, 21:11 
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Joined: 08.05.2010, 19:53
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Hi guys

I have had a pretty close look at many of these video's on youtube of the wobble and stuff and it looks to me a lot like they are Beat Boxing down the DIJ I think that's where most of the rhythm is coming from sounds pretty cool when it's done right but a lot of the time is sounds like a complete noise / spits and pops if you get what i mean. would still be a great skill to have tho :)


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 Post subject: Re: Fast Rhythms
PostPosted: 14.05.2010, 21:23 
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Posts: 65
Hi Ahaw,

Yes, I'm living in the captial, D.F. The pollution can be at times, sickening. However, we're just entering the wet season, and like now, for about half an hour, it rains. Not European rain, but as if there is an ocean falling from the sky. Gives the city a good clean!
That's great that you enjoy Mayan culture; I spent a good deal of time at Tikal (you may have seen these temples in the original Star Wars film) when I lived in Guatemala. Of course here in Mexico City, just a short drive brings you to Teotihuacan; a really mesmerizing archeological site, that houses some of the greatest pyramids here in Latin America. I haven't educated myself as such in codex tro-cortesianus, but the hieroglyphics can be seen beautifully here in one of the temples, albeit with some fading.

I saw your drawing, congratulations!
Peace,

Zed.


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 Post subject: Re: Fast Rhythms
PostPosted: 14.05.2010, 21:31 
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Hi Breo,

I really don't know what direction to point you in I'm afraid. I've walked your path, and if that style is your taste, and where your heart is so to speak, then think of the instrument just as an extension of your mouth, and the endless capabilities that you can create with your mouth. Use limited guidance from youtube etc, and immerse yourself the way that you know how. I guess people call this 'investment'?

OR...

Play it how it should be played...

Sincerely,
Zed.


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 Post subject: Re: Fast Rhythms
PostPosted: 14.05.2010, 23:55 
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Joined: 05.06.2008, 00:03
Posts: 65
Just read my previous post, and it sounds like a bloody porn.

mouth 'sounds'


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 Post subject: Re: Fast Rhythms
PostPosted: 25.07.2010, 17:52 
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Joined: 02.05.2006, 03:21
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zed wrote:
Just read my previous post, and it sounds like a bloody porn.

mouth 'sounds'


Don't sweat Zed. They say porno stuff in Tabla playing too.....
This idea of schools is very interesting, I must say. Who is fronting the school in the UK for contemporary, I wonder? I have fallen off the forums for that kind of playing and have no idea at all. Youtube has made stars out of people for all sorts of stuff, I think. Once again, the internet has to be mentally filtered, else we're back to such quotes as "the didgerdu has been around for 50,000 years" and blah blah blah. Different folk have different filters. E.g. mine is trad, but that does not mean that someone like Dubravko Lapaine is not a cracking player.... But then again, he is also a lovely person. If he was a pillock, I would not give him the time of day...


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