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 Post subject: The "Double Drone"
PostPosted: 21.03.2010, 15:13 
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Joined: 18.11.2009, 12:40
Posts: 33
First of all - please forgive me if this is an old topic - as it's completely new to me. I was browsing didjeridu stuff on the internet - were all familiar with that! - and I learned of a supposedly new and revolutionary technique for playing the didj. I saw Will Thorens playing "double drone" on a didj and with all my years of experience, I've never heard of such a thing before - either in traditional playing, or modern style. I'm not sure this type of playing is for me, but I must say I'm impressed that, despite the considerable age of the didjeridu, someone has only recently discovered this technique. Does anyone know if this technique already existed in traditional playing (and maybe went by another name) or is it, as Mr. Thorens said, a completely new approach? Secondly, how is it done and does it require a specially constructed didj? Thanks to anyone who can shed some light on the double drone.


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 Post subject: Re: The "Double Drone"
PostPosted: 21.03.2010, 22:33 
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Joined: 22.03.2006, 21:12
Posts: 377
Location: Italy
Thanks for pointing this out and compliments to Will for his interesting work and developments as it has also resulted in an interesting evolution of didgeridoo design.

The technique in itself is not new, it is what is commonly known as a
pedal tone on brass instruments, and is playable when there is good harmonic alignment of
the playable notes on an instrument. For instance, if the fundamental and first toot are an octave apart, and the next toot is also in the same harmonic sequence, then it becomes possible to play the pedal tone that is not a resonant frequency of the instrument but is playable as the rest of the harmonic series (that is present) allows it to be so. With a particularly large mouthpiece and tight bore, the instrument will make these notes more playable. .
For a practical example, if my fundamental is C and first toot is C and second is say G, then on this
instrument the low C, an octave below the fundamental will also be playable as a pedal tone.

They are used particuarly on brass bass instruments like tuba and bass trombone e.g;
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hb ... rassa.html

cheers, M

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 Post subject: Re: The "Double Drone"
PostPosted: 22.03.2010, 11:01 
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Thank you Martin. It's a little clearer now. I thought maybe he was simply playing the "toot"- because on an outrageously long didj, say 10 or more feet, the drone actually becomes the toot or overblown note. The real drone on an impractically long didj is unplayable since one's lips couldn't vibrate at such a low rate. I'm gonna look into his webpage and his Youtube vids a bit more to figure out if I can do it on my "normal" length didjes.


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 Post subject: Re: The "Double Drone"
PostPosted: 23.03.2010, 14:20 
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Joined: 18.03.2006, 05:35
Posts: 307
Location: Alpine , California
Will has developed a fantastic mouthpiece making it easier to play. As Martin states, its far lagrer than we are acustomed to but he has also shaped it to fit the face. Its amazingly easy to play! This mouthpiece seems to alow the lips more freedom- that is less contact with the walls alowing us easier control in tightning the lips. The result is a great all around 'regular' didge that happens to be easier to play below the fundamental. http://www.williamthoren.com

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 Post subject: Re: The "Double Drone"
PostPosted: 23.03.2010, 16:16 
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Joined: 18.03.2006, 13:53
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Location: Bantry, Ireland
Very polished site he has.

One thing that made me curious: the prices on his intruments are shown as Fair Trade (note the capitals). Does Fair Trade mean something else in the US?

"Fair Trade" usually refers to a well-known organisation to help producers in developing countries obtain better trading conditions and promote sustainability http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_trade and I can't really see how his didges qualify... or is the US economy that bad now? ;-) :shock: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: The "Double Drone"
PostPosted: 23.03.2010, 17:10 
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Joined: 22.03.2006, 21:12
Posts: 377
Location: Italy
Good point John. In fact it is a bit unclear how this Fair Trade appelation applies to these didges. The pages with didge price and Fair trade logos are actually those of LA outback, where they state that,

"Our eucalyptus didgeridoos are Australian made and purchased with Fair Trade ethics. We earnestly recycle and re-use clean packing material. And every product and service we offer comes with our famous "No Worries" guarantee."

William Thoren's didges are apparently neither Australian made, nor Eucalyptus....

Is there really some "understood" meaning of the term Fair Trade as used in the US.. one that does not really correspond to the usual one?

Can someone help unscramble our confusion please:)

peace, Martin

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 Post subject: Re: The "Double Drone"
PostPosted: 24.03.2010, 08:37 
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Location: Bantry, Ireland
Quote:
William Thoren's didges are apparently neither Australian made, nor Eucalyptus


Even if they were both of these, I can't see how it would qualify the didges as Fair Trade. Anyone know what LA Outback mean by "Fair Trade ethics"?

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 Post subject: Re: The "Double Drone"
PostPosted: 24.03.2010, 13:30 
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I couldn't agree more with you two. Thoren's or LA Outback's definition (or misinterpretation?) of "Fair Trade" shouldn't be generalized to the entire U.S.A, though. I think they have misinterpreted it to mean that the pricing of their products is within the same range as those of other dealers. Perhaps they should have said "Fair Price" or "competitive" pricing.


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 Post subject: Re: The "Double Drone"
PostPosted: 24.03.2010, 15:43 
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Location: Bantry, Ireland
I thought that too at first, but then why write the capital letters if it's just a general statement, and why "ethics" - that has nothing to do with competition.

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 Post subject: Re: The "Double Drone"
PostPosted: 25.03.2010, 01:41 
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LA Outback is trying to sell more didjes based on the mistaken belief that all didjeridu enthusiasts are genuinely concerned with the well-being of the Aboriginal craftspersons. This is a stereotype. There are well over a million didj-ies around the globe. Who declared that we were all united in our perspectives? With today's economy in such dire straits, the highest quality product available at the most reasonable price is what the consumer will now buy. How many of us choose, or chose our didjeridu solely on the ambiguous "fair trade" tag? I sure didn't - price and sound quality have always driven my purchases.


Last edited by apprentice on 27.03.2010, 16:36, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The "Double Drone"
PostPosted: 25.03.2010, 08:32 
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Joined: 24.02.2007, 00:24
Posts: 189
Location: France
It's strange because they've got a "Fair Trade" logo but no link at all for further explanation... :?
(same for the "tree planting" logo)

Quote:
Image Image Image Image
Commitments
Our eucalyptus didgeridoos are Australian made and purchased with Fair Trade ethics. We earnestly recycle and re-use clean packing material. And every product and service we offer comes with our famous "No Worries" guarantee.

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 Post subject: Re: The "Double Drone"
PostPosted: 25.03.2010, 14:00 
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Joined: 18.11.2009, 12:40
Posts: 33
This is not the only time L.O. has been involved in shady dealings. About a year ago they had online a blatant fake of a Galpu yidaki made by an American, a Kentuckian named David Friley out of Cherrywood and appropriately titled "Fauxdaki". To be honest, LO did not make any claim that the stick was authentic. IDIJD's "didgeridoo detective" was alerted and he contacted the owner of LO to politely ask him to remove it. After some negotiating and backtracking by LO's owner, the stick was reluctantly removed. You can see it pictured in the link below. The point is, LO has been to Yirrkala and claims to personally know and still speak to Randy the former admin at Yirrkala Arts - in other words, they knew better and cannot plead ignorance. If that weren't bad enough, several months later another of Friley's fake yidaki bearing Galpu-like clan bands was for sale online at L.O.. It disappeared shortly afterward. If anything can be inferred from this it is that our hosts, Serious Sticks, deserves mention for being such honourable merchants. In all my years of dealing with the didj community, I have never, ever heard anyone say anything negative about SS - Good Job Boys! Keep up the good work for many more years!

http://www.forum.ididj.com.au/download/file.php?id=595


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 Post subject: Re: The "Double Drone"
PostPosted: 26.03.2010, 23:02 
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Joined: 19.03.2006, 03:03
Posts: 113
Location: SW Lower MI/USA
After reading these posts and visiting the LA Outback site, thought I'd see if I could get the guys from LAO to reply... so here ya go, direct from Barry (not me)...

Barry from L.A.Outback here. I don't really monitor or join-in the didge forums because folks that don't know us personally think I'm only in there to promote our business. That said, a few things have come up on this forum that I'd like to help clarify...

Firstly, I'm a big supporter of fair trade, so we practice fair trade ethics. For the didge trade, our set of ethics involve purchasing from reputable art centers like Buku Larrngay Mulka, and crafters that I have personal knowledge of regarding the cutting and painting of termite hollowed eucalyptus didges. While Serious Sticks and a few other dealers practice these same ethics without using the words "fair trade ethics", I chose to say so on our website to help us stand out a bit, and because most people seem to appreciate the effort we put into importing properly made instruments and artworks from Australia, paying more for better quality, and not buying from dubious "souvenir suppliers".

Australia is not a third world country, so products made there are not eligible for monitoring under any official fair trade organization. And that's why I use the term "Fair Trade ethics". The capital letters are purely aesthetic, to help the word stand out on the page.

Regarding Dave Friley's didges painted with colored bands... I was a bit taken aback by the assumption that there was any misrepresentation involved, even accidentally. It is very clear that the didges were made by Dave in Kentucky (a great guy by the way!) I have no problem with artistic interpretation, as long as the artwork is not a direct copy of another person's artwork. Painting red, yellow, black and white bands, or even dots on a didge by a non-aboriginal person is fine unless 1. You claim that the art is by an aboriginal person when it's not., and/or 2. You directly copy someone elses artwork. All art is inspired, usually by other works of art. Even Prince Harry paints aboriginal-inspired dot art featuring lizards and such. You'll always find opposition to this, usually by haters that don't have a creative bone in their body.

And BTW, I was never contacted by Guan at iDidj about Dave's instruments. They vanished from our website because they sold. Sometimes Guan corrects a spelling or clan affiliation I have gotten wrong and I appreciate that, but he's never suggested that I remove a didge from our site. Not in over 14 years of business.

I say let's keep after sellers of Indo teak and bamboo didges that CLAIM they are selling authentic aboriginal didges. When you see them on eBay on elsewhere please send the seller a note and let them know what they are doing is wrong. But don't be hate'n on LAO, I'm doing my best here.

Good vibes,

Barry
L.A.Outback


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 Post subject: Re: The "Double Drone"
PostPosted: 26.03.2010, 23:57 
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Location: Bantry, Ireland
Quote:
so products made there are not eligible for monitoring under any official fair trade organization. And that's why I use the term "Fair Trade ethics". The capital letters are purely aesthetic, to help the word stand out on the page.

So why is the Fair Trade Organisation logo on the site?

Quote:
I'm a big supporter of fair trade, so we practice fair trade ethics. For the didge trade, our set of ethics involve purchasing from reputable art centers like Buku Larrngay Mulka, and crafters that I have personal knowledge of regarding the cutting and painting of termite hollowed eucalyptus didges.

I very much appreciate anyone dealing with Buku - they need all the support they can get. But that doesn't explain why "Fair Trade" appears on all the didge pages, for example the polyresin ones.

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 Post subject: Re: The "Double Drone"
PostPosted: 27.03.2010, 17:12 
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I don't think openly discussing the topic is a case of "hatin on LAO" as the alleged quote from Barry Martin says above. As for my comments, since I do not know you and I have not previously done any business with you, it's nothing personal. Keep in mind that LAO's online store is publicly available on the internet and we we're just having a discussion regarding content shown on your website. Also, the incident involving the didgeridoo detective was publicly available http://www.forum.ididj.com.au/appropriating-aboriginal-clan-designs-t683.html and although they extended you the coutresy of keeping your name confidential, one needed only to visit your site to see the "Fauxdaki" and make the connection. Notice that my above post specifically stated that LAO made no claims that the Fauxdaki was an authentic Galpu yidaki! Furthermore, the very name you created made clear that said stick was FAKE, for in Francais, "faux" translates as fake. As much as I love the didjeridu, and despite my longtime interest in Australian Aboriginal and other hunter-gatherer, nomadic cultures, I seriously HATE what I will term didj politics, and political correctness. If you read between the lines of my posts above you should get the sense that I'm criticising LAO's endorsement of Fair Trade on one hand and the apparent contradiction of instruments like the "Fauxdaki" on the other. Does this make sense, and is this just "hatin" as you call it?


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