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 Post subject: Shelf-life of a trad. stick - Short or Long?
PostPosted: 01.09.2007, 11:49 
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Joined: 01.09.2007, 10:55
Posts: 33
Hello,

havent managed to find out anything about this in the forum, so if this is a reccurent enquiry - my utmost apologies ;) am still not fully adept with the forum.

my questions regard the shelf-life and changes seen with time in trad instruments considering they're still "living" wood.

1) supposing one is maintaining humidity at a good range, oiliing the inst. 2-3 times a year, breaking in with caution etc. is there any limit on its life span?

2) does a thick wall make it less prone to cracking?

3) i did find some messages relating to a process of polimerizing of the oil in the wood (or of the wood with the oil?), but did not fully understand its workings...

4 ) how are the sound properties affected by this "polimerizing" process & i.e with time?

5) does polimerizing affect the maintenance regime entailed with owning a trad. ? i.e does one need to be less cautious with time?

thanks for your help. all the best,

Doron


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PostPosted: 01.09.2007, 12:36 
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Joined: 18.03.2006, 03:07
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Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Hi Rattlestick and welcome to the forum!

As far as 'shelf-life' goes, I've got several instruments in my collection that are well over 20 years old, so the life of a traditional instrument can indeed be a lifetime with careful use. The biggest threat to instruments is cracking soon after importation, in my opinion. Wood with shift according to temperature and humidity, and I find the most cracks develop from overplaying from an excited new owner. Curing slowly and building up your playing over a period of weeks will set you off on the right foot.

As for oiling, it's a good preventative against cracking as it reduces the rate at which moisture is lost. It's these swings in humidity inside the bore that stress the wood fibers and create cracks. When tung oil dries, it polymerizes in the wood fibers and strengthens the wood with very little effect on the sound. If you only own one trad stick and play it often, oiling is a good idea. But I have a good number of instruments here so not one gets played too frequently.

I would say that cracks are not an inevitability, but they do happen if you own enough instruments and are easy to repair.

Jason


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 01.09.2007, 13:20 
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Joined: 01.09.2007, 10:55
Posts: 33
Hi Jason,

thanks for the welcome and your help!

just to clarify, intuitively i would think that a thick wall would be less prone to cracking, is this true?

do you know whether a correctly followed oiling regime during a long period - say a few years - seal the bore enough to necessitate less care and maintenance? (due to polimerizing and other adjustments)

last but not least, from your experience are instruments more, less or always equally prone to cracking with time? (if correctly maintained)

mighty cheers,

Doron


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PostPosted: 01.09.2007, 13:38 
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Joined: 18.03.2006, 03:07
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Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Hey Rattlestick,

I would say that there are so many variables with trad sticks that it's possible to say anything with certainty ;)

That said, I would say that thinner walls (but still solid) are actually more stable because there's less wood to shift! I've had some that are more sensitive and some that are rock-solid stable with never any indication of even a hairline crack.

I used to oil regularly, but now I tend to oil when instruments first arrive to help them settle from importation and then play it by ear as time goes on. Just as there's no hard and fast rule with how long it takes to break in a new instrument, there's no absolute rule with how often to oil. A good regimen is every couple of months during the first year, then maybe once a year after. More so if you play this stick often, or use your intuition. If I haven't played one particular stick for a long time, I build up slowly just for my own peace of mind.

Jason


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PostPosted: 01.09.2007, 14:42 
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Joined: 18.03.2006, 00:50
Posts: 750
Location: Canada
Hi there

ok i probaly will not make some freind with this one .Play lots of stick to not overplay them to prevent cracking is one thing . I have 13 yidaki i only get on 3 .With time my taste have changed so some instrument stays on the stand . The problem is when you improving and spent hours practicing its often on the same 2 or 3 stick unless you have a dozen of each key you prefer :roll: you put pressure on your stick and its not because your exited ! Oiling yidaki 3 to 4 time a year ? im tired of oiling yidaki and waiting a week for it to dry and im wondering with time what all those repetitive oiling can do on a stick ,again with time i like to think for my yidaki to be as raw as possible .So im oiling once a year and all the stick i play have crack !! And you know what im also tired of repairing crack !! so im putting electrical tape on my yidaki!! until i spent a day or two repairing the cracks and oiling them.I understand why some yolgnu put electrical tape on their yidaki . Ok for some of you its not like having a brand new yidaki but with time new or used , electrical tape or not ,i dont care anymore i just want to play and improve and its hard enough like that ! And they play great even with electrical tape . I think i will even buy one with electrical tape if really the stick play great .My stick are ugly but i like them .Ok throw me rock now :lol:

Dup pu dup ,my stick are ugly !
GGW

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PostPosted: 02.09.2007, 00:21 
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Joined: 18.04.2007, 23:34
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Location: Essex UK
Hi GGW

You must be the unluckiest person to ever play a yidaki. cracks in all your sticks???????? :shock: What are you doing to them??

Paul

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PostPosted: 02.09.2007, 03:16 
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Location: Canada
Hi there

Quote:
You must be the unluckiest person to ever play a yidaki. cracks in all your sticks???????? What are you doing to them??


i play each of them more than 15 minute :wink: Craks on yidaki dont mean no more bad luck to me its like a natural thing .But luck is pick up the perfect stick on internet without trying it.

GGW

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 02.09.2007, 15:54 
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Location: Italy
there's something wrong in how you keep your instruments GGW...
i own about 15 instruments and only one developed cracks.. and i never played this last one...
since you're in Canada i think your problem is the cold-warm/wet-dry cycles
do your instruments crack more during winter or during summer? i bet in the starting winter..

please tell us more .. perhaps we might help you to not have more taped (and ugly) yidaki's

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PostPosted: 02.09.2007, 17:12 
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Location: Canada
Hi there

Quote:
there's something wrong in how you keep your instruments GGW...


I dont see what i do wrong exept playing to much on the same 2 or 3 yidaki .To me it is the "wrong thing i do " but can we say its wrong to practice hard ?

Quote:
i own about 15 instruments and only one developed cracks.. and i never played this last one...


Oh i have yidaki that dont have crack and its those who i almost never played .I would say those i bought in my modern to traditional style transition .

Quote:
since you're in Canada i think your problem is the cold-warm/wet-dry cycles
do your instruments crack more during winter or during summer? i bet in the starting winter..


This is taboo :wink: here in canada we perhaps have cold weather but we dont play outside and then get in the house and dry our instrument by the fireplace :lol:

The last yidaki i bought from Christian is a Mirrara .I got him in the coldest week of last winter -35 and even got lost in a truck ! Christian was worry and so do i .Finnaly the yidaki came in i let him settle for a week an half and start slowly work on him .Nothing happen .I played him all winter all spring and this summer . Now for the last 3 month i only worked on 2 yidaki my Daphné natural bore and the Mirrara .The Daphné is a delicate bloodwood and started showing sing of stress last week so i gave him a break and work more on the Mirrara .I even told Christian this Mirrara is rock solid ive been practicing on this yidaki for hours day after day ! Guess what ? fryday morning after 2 minutes of playing cracks !.All the yidaki ive work and learn on , all of them haved split in august where the weather here is perfect ! But august is also the time of the year i oil my yidaki before winter ! No im sure they spilt because i play to long on them .Who say im practicing to much .I have ugly yidaki but i like them !

dup pu dup
GGW

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 02.09.2007, 20:43 
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Location: Italy
not sure what to say... perhaps you just play too much on a single instrument.

i try to play all my instruments during the week, no more than 15-20 min. each one... but sometimes i've played for more than 2 hours without any kind of problems...

really .. i'm pretty sure that there's some enviromental factor that splits your instruments..

anyway.. hope you find the cause..
if i was you i'll oil the instruments 2 times a year, before gets warm and before get cold

i know you love your yidaki :wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 03.09.2007, 02:28 
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Joined: 18.03.2006, 00:50
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Location: Canada
Hi there

Quote:
not sure what to say... perhaps you just play too much on a single instrument.


If you are not to sure what to say feel free to send it by mp :wink: and yes i play way to long on single yidaki in fact its 2 .And thats why they crack ,I play a minimum 3 hour a day since the last 5 month .Last thursday i took the day off and my practice was like 9 hours .What can i say ... i still play like **** to not say shit ! Some will say it's to much i say if i can why not !

Quote:
if i was you i'll oil the instruments 2 times a year, before gets warm and before get cold


You are right and this is what i will do even if i dont like it at all . One thing if the sound of my yidaki gets to shinny i will stop oiling them .Thanks again for your advice they all are apreciated :)

GGW

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