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 Post subject: Natural earth pigments for painting instruments
PostPosted: 01.02.2007, 18:02 
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Joined: 11.04.2006, 09:37
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Location: England - but would rather be out sailing in the Med
I recall a discussion in one of the earlier threads about natural earth pigments for retouching or painting instruments and wondered if any one had a site name where I may be able to order some. Additionally can anyone name the true earth pigments used in decorating high integrity instruments?

I have the following company so far http://kremer-pigmente.de/englisch/krpigm03.htm , which looks promising. I intend to mix the pigment with PVA (common wood glue).

Many thanks
Paul

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Last edited by KanGo on 02.02.2007, 17:28, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 01.02.2007, 19:01 
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Joined: 18.03.2006, 00:50
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Location: Canada
Hi there

Just had a look on your site and those pigment looks fine to me.If i can suggest you might buy them already in powder form so you wont have to do it .Grinding pure pigment is kind of a messy job .And if it's not done properly the lightfastness will be reduce and the color will look less bright .To me and its my own personal opinion here i wont bother if the pigment i use is local or not to where the yidaki was paint .You can find natural pigment all over the world and if you dont have the exact color you can mixt them to get the exact color.To me a natural pigment is a natural pigment comming from different source .If you still want the same local pigment as the yidaki you want to repair i cant help you more than that .

Remind the pigment use will change when adding liquid and glue as an example if you put water on jell-o powder it will change to a more darker color and when drying will change again so practice on something else before . If you are changing your mind about water and glue let me know i have some receipe ,but to repair a yidaki i would just go with water (pure ) and pva .Good luck

GGW


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PostPosted: 01.02.2007, 19:41 
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Joined: 20.03.2006, 10:41
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Location: UK
Hi Paul,

The ochres used in painting Arnhem Land instruments are very 'site specific' with certain areas providing different shades of various colours, red, yellow and black primarily, and pipeclay (Gapan) is used for the white pigment, so the colour of any stick you've got depends on where the ochres were sourced.

This means that it's quite hard to accurately match the tone of said instruments and the best thing to do is to experiment with the paints before applying them as Richard suggests. I've got some natural ochres from Arnhem Land but the resultant colours change from rock to rock!

Kyle


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PostPosted: 01.02.2007, 19:52 
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Joined: 18.03.2006, 03:07
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Location: Pennsylvania, USA
I'll second what Kyle has said here, Paul. In all likelihood, you'll have paint whole sections rather than just do spot repairs to get the colors/colours to match. As these are naturally occurring mineral oxide pigments, there is going to be a lot of variation in intensity and quality of color (i mean, 'colour' ;)) from ochres collected from different areas around the globe.


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PostPosted: 01.02.2007, 22:17 
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Location: Canada
Hi there

You are right guys!Take as example a red pigment from germany , france or australia are slightly different in the tone and intensity (pigment concentration )but they are all pigment . What we are looking for is a color , and with any good quality pigment in the same kind from different source we can obtain by mixing them the color we are looking for ,its not written on the yidak this part as been repair with a mixt of different tone of red ocher .If the source for a black pigment use for a yidaki is manganese there are different source of maganese arround the world all with slitg difference but it still manganese .In another word we can make the color we want from natural pigment .If we can mix color to get the same color KanGo is looking for and a paint with water and glue it will take heck of an expert to know where these pigment came from .As long we can get the same tone with the original color that is on the yidaki even if the color as fade with time its a diferent mixt thats all .All it take is an eye to mix them in the same value . :cyclops:

GGW


Last edited by Ghost of GW on 02.02.2007, 00:25, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 01.02.2007, 22:30 
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Joined: 17.03.2006, 21:22
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Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Ghost of GW wrote:
All it take is an eye to mix them in the same value . :wink:


"All it takes", he says :cry: I've always found it it extremely difficult to perfectly match the colours since they always change when drying.

John is excellent at that though and he's the Serious Sticks' resident master restorer. I sometimes can't believe it how he manages to patch up stuff.


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PostPosted: 01.02.2007, 23:02 
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Joined: 18.03.2006, 13:53
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Location: Bantry, Ireland
Quote:
Serious Sticks' resident master restorer.


The PigMentor in fact :color:


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PostPosted: 02.02.2007, 00:18 
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Hi there

Ah Ah ! I better have an eye at my new serious stick :cyclopsani:

GGW :cya:


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PostPosted: 02.02.2007, 08:29 
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Check for my signature at the bottom :clown:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 02.02.2007, 17:39 
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Joined: 11.04.2006, 09:37
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Location: England - but would rather be out sailing in the Med
Thanks for the timely advise guys. I'm planning to repaint a sycamore split didge, which I had painted a year ago but am no longer happy with the poor colours (colors) used. Real pigments give a finish with far more colour depth. I might substitute casein for the PVA. I will up a picture when its finished.

If that works out ok I will progress on to retouching one of my proper sticks.

Paul

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Brother, there are clapsticks for us all. Come with us! (Walakandha calling the singer in "Yenmilhi")
http://www.dullmen.com/home.html


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PostPosted: 02.02.2007, 17:45 
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Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Quote:
colours (colors)


Is that a stab at the Yank, Paul ;)


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PostPosted: 02.02.2007, 17:55 
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Location: England - but would rather be out sailing in the Med
:usa2: :thumbup:

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http://www.dullmen.com/home.html


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 Post subject: pigments
PostPosted: 03.02.2007, 17:07 
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Location: Alpine , California
In the usa http://www.realmilkpaint.com/powder.html has a nice selection of colors ready to use.

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PostPosted: 03.04.2007, 12:12 
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Joined: 27.10.2006, 12:09
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Location: UK
I used to mix pva with paint (to make it last longer and waterproof) when at art college. The pva gave the paint a soft sheen and affected the depth/opacity of the colour, however I was unable to reproduce matt finishes. The colour depth was depedent on the ratio of paint/water/pva used.
When repairing my Djalu, after alot of experimentation, I found that red oxide primer car body repair paint was an almost identical match.
Hope this helps,
Good luck

:D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 03.04.2007, 15:11 
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Location: England - but would rather be out sailing in the Med
Your experience of the final finish is similar to my own experiences with pigment and PVA.

After my earlier post I came across a book on making your own paint and paint finishes which I've studied and have now started experimenting with a DIY paint mix of pigment, water, danish oil and egg. The final finish avoids the eggshell type sheen of PVA, and approximates the decorative finish of two early sticks I own and am using as examples. Both of which have an easily chipable, but dead flat finish.
The approach is experimental, but fun - it will probably take about a month to complete a single stick, due to the long drying time between coats, and like the earlier authentic sticks, the decorative finish will probably only last for about seventy years, unlike PVA which will nodoubt go on for ever. :?

Paul

NB :I too spent some years at art collage and it now pisses me off that we were never taught anything about the history and development of
paint finishes.

NNB : Natural Paint Book (Paperback) by Lynn Edwards (Author), Julia Lawless (Author)

Still later note - try the following site for pigments http://jpennyltd.co.uk/shopping/start.p ... at=10&=SID where the products are considerably cheaper than I eventually paid for them :(

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http://www.dullmen.com/home.html


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