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PostPosted: 10.06.2006, 14:47 
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hi there

Davef wrote
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I believe a lot of traditional sticks are clear coated with PVA which is plain old white glue.


Yes i beleive that to but before painting the yidaki with ocher ,Dont put a coat of PVA glue on ocher .
Experimenting spray on a 1400 $ yidaki hmmmm can be worst than watching the powdery white ocher pigment slowly falling off the didge .
Just receive 2 new yidaki both with ocher paint ,one painted by Daphné Banyawarra and the other by Ganyitingu Mununggur the first one painted by Daphné is very flaky and just by touching the white color leaves you some residue on your hand ,very delicate .The Ganyitingu is very solid . I wonder why some are so fragile and some are solid .

RFG Pastel fixative are killing pastel never put fixativeon pastel ! What was the result on your yidaki ?

GGW

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PostPosted: 10.06.2006, 18:53 
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Ghost of GW wrote:
RFG Pastel fixative are killing pastel never put fixativeon pastel ! What was the result on your yidaki ?GGW

Hi GW,

Well, I used to think I was a pretty smart. After getting the Burrgnupurrgnu I am not so sure of myself anymore. I suppose that is a good thing :-)

Originally, I thought that since pastels are so fragile, like ocres, often coming off in your hands, this fixative might be more designed for this use. Unfortunately, I was wrong. The fixative definately affected the paints in a negative way. Fortunately, I was being careful and only applied a very light coat from a distance and waited for each coat to dry before applying another. After the first coat, I didn't notice any change. After after five or six coats, however, I noticed some subtle changes occuring and stopped applying the fixative.

Though I wish I never did this, fortunately the damaged was minimized by this approach, causing only some very slight bleeding of the ochre paints. On normal viewing, the painting is still quite beautiful and nobody (but me :-( ) ever notices anything wrong. Close up the sharpness of the lines is a bit less , and it added a slight matte sheen to the surface.

One good thing is that the ocre paints now don't come off on my hand as readily. But when I got some stuff on the didg and tried to wipe it off with a damp cloth, some ocre paint came off, so the level of protection is not as good as I had thought it would be (I guess since I stopped before I got too much fixative on). Later, when I bult a case from a fishing rod case (see my other thread on this), I used a soft very spongy rubber-like material to line the case (from Home Depot) for protection. Big mistake!!! Somehow, the rubber bonded with the sprayed on fixative chemically, and stuck to the didg. I couldn't even get it out of the case!!! ) (Please don't laugh at this poor whitefella who was clearly doing everything wrong...this was very depressing at the time).

All in all, the Burrgnupurrgnu was teaching me a powerful lesson, other than about playing it. I had some subtle ego or pride going on with this didg - it is such a masterpiece (even after my messing with it) and such a powerful performance instrument. I called myself it's "custodian" and felt special in some way. I clearly was over-idealizing my relationship with this instrument and with Aboriginal culture in general. While trying to be such a smart balanda, doing my best I thought to protect the didg, I was having the opposite affect entirely - at every step I was making things worse!! Aaargh. I now realize that, of course, ... and in the end it all turned out OK. The didg is still beautiful, and I eventually got most of the rubber material off (it falls off little by little on its own, and I can carefully pick it off with a fingernail, but of course cannot wipe it off with anything without further damage to the fragile ocre paints, despite the fixative). By the way, I use a small bit of carpet runner to line the case now, with the pile facing inward towards the didg, and it is working fine.

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PostPosted: 10.06.2006, 20:02 
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hi there


Oh la la ! what an adventure ! It was done with good intention ,if you knew it before you would never did this . At least its still a beautyfull instrument and you learn this is what this journey is for :wink: i am look ing at my Daphné Banyawarra and of course it,s broking my heart to see it slowly fading off .I tought of fix it but a litlle voice telling me to not agrrrr ...this instrument haved been paint like this by an artist i think i should respect the way it was done even if its hard to accept .Art can be transitory .And this is also two culture meeting here .Is it possible for them to make them more durable ?,i dont know, maybe ,did they know what we think about seing these beauty fading off pretty quickly.... Enjoy your beautyfull soulmate and long life with him .

GGW

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PostPosted: 10.06.2006, 20:47 
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Ghost of GW wrote:
Art can be transitory. GGW


Some of the most beautiful art I ever experienced were some ceremonial Tibetan sand paintings. It took a whole bunch of monks several days to complete this sand painting in Scottsdale, Arizona several years ago. I went there to hang out several times. The first time I had to leave for a few minutes to get my bearings as I got dizzy from the energy. When it was all done, they ceremonially gather up all the sand, "destroying" the sand painting (or so it would appear to untrained eyes), then took the sand down to a local river and released the sand, and energy, to travel around the world. I got to polay a small role in that and it was just amazing. I still carry the energy, the beauty and the experience with me, so really art like that is eternal. Yet there is still a part of me that wishes I could hold onto experiences like that in a more tangible way, and wishes it didn't break my heart (or yours) to watch these works of art transform in our hands in ways we might not expect, or in some cases have to give them away. Unfortunately, durability is sometimes not only untraditional, but misses the point.

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PostPosted: 10.06.2006, 21:32 
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hi there

Good example RFG .I think Native in arizona also making spectacular sand painting i think but not sure its the Navajo (spelling ?) .I saw a documentary once and it was just amazingly beautyfull . Native (amérindien in french ) from all over america are amazing artist too !
I did once play didgeridoo with Inuit throat singer ,great experience ,i tell ya they gave me a ride on my A# wooo ! Sometime i think there a connection with these old culture ..

GGW

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PostPosted: 10.06.2006, 21:41 
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I'd just like to repeat (I did mention it way back on this thread but it seemed to get ignored) that I have consistent positive experience of using a fine-mist water-based matt acrylic aerosol - so for those who do want to protect ochre, I would recommend it. It's only a thin coating and doesn't protect or bind perfectly, but it's a very good compromise for those who are so inclined.


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PostPosted: 10.06.2006, 21:45 
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Hi there

Thanks John ,very tempting :)

GGW

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PostPosted: 10.06.2006, 22:00 
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There is definately a strong connection between these ancient spiritual traditional cultures. Yes, the Navajo people also use sand paintings. I have seen those, too, but was more personally involved with the Tibetan monks when they came to Arizona. There are other strong connections. An elderly medicine man I knew kept a picture of the Dalai Lama by his bed and told me they were brothers. Some Hopi elders I met said that their language was similar enough to Tibetan that they could understand each other. Of course, the Tibetans use a long ceremonial instrument that is a lot like a didgeridoo, and do throat singing as well! And a Yaqui nagual I spent some time with loved my didg so much that he asked if he could hold it - after holding it all day I never asked for it back (one of those giveaways I was talkiing about that we treasure on one level and resist on another).

That acrylic aerosol sounds tempting, too - but I think I will stay au naturale!

Gotta buy one of these some time. They're made of copper mostly and quite beautiful. They sell for around $400.
Image

And here is a lsound sample:


Attachments:
longhorn4.mp3 [226.84 KiB]
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PostPosted: 10.06.2006, 22:33 
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hi there

I like those tibetain horn a lot .I dont know if you know Nawang Khechog if not you have to look for his cd's,he is also an amazing flute player . You can have a look at http://www.nawangkhechog.com/


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PostPosted: 10.06.2006, 22:52 
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I have only recently heard of him. I intend to check out his music more thoroughly. He is also a didgeridoo player apparently, and plays Tibetan Long Horn and somethinng he invented that combines longhorn, didg and trombone!!! Should be interesting to listen to.

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PostPosted: 13.06.2006, 04:47 
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Hi there John,

John wrote

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I have consistent positive experience of using a fine-mist water-based matt acrylic aerosol - so for those who do want to protect ochre, I would recommend it.


What is the brand you did used to fix your yidaki ? is it a fixative use for art work ? Thanks

GGW

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PostPosted: 13.06.2006, 07:56 
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The brand I use is Migros "Aqua Lack". Migros are a chain store in Switzerland.

It's not specifically designed for use as an artwork fixative.

I'll have a look at the can later and see if I can discover more.


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 Post subject: fixative used
PostPosted: 13.06.2006, 13:54 
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Just checked on what I used in my case- it was Liquitex Soluvar matt picture varnish for oil and acrylic, etc. I did NOT follow directions- instead I tested and found that a heavy one coat cause bleeding of the ochers if applied heavily. I gave the stick a very light misting, allowed it to fully dry, and repeated several times. This product is not a moisture stopping product as it was intended to be removable- although that does not apply in my case.

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PostPosted: 13.06.2006, 14:24 
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Personally, I quite like the look of faded ochre artwork on well-used didjeridus. After a lot of handling the pigments begin to fade but the stone eats into the wood a little and eventually only a ghost image remains, adding, in my opinion, a lot of character to the stick!

GW, I've got a Banyawarra with beautiful artwork that is beginning to fade as well, but this all adds to the stick I think.

all the best,

Kyle


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PostPosted: 13.06.2006, 14:37 
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Yepp - 2 things are essential if you want to apply anything to ochre:

1. It has to be a fine mist, applied in several layers

2. It has to dry very fast. How fast is fast? Well. the stuff I use is dry and ready for another misting within 2 mins

Both these factors are critical to prevent running and bleeding

Definitely not for the faint of heart. I usually get saddled with the awesome responsibility if we need to seal something exquisite for a customer. Cheers Christian me old mate :wink:


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