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 Post subject: Sealing artwork?
PostPosted: 01.05.2006, 18:32 
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What methods do you use in sealing ochre artwork, or more specifically, the fine white pipeclay? Personally, I use a matte finish art fixative to add some protection in the least invasive way (doesn't change the look or feel of the instrument), but I have seen some yidaki painted in ochres sealed with a polyurethane/polycrylic semi-gloss that is then made more 'matte' by using some superfine steel wool.

Any thoughts?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 01.05.2006, 22:42 
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hi there

Personnaly i wouldnt fix those pigment .In short time maybe there is no problem ,but in long time .... deffenitly the color will change starting by the brighter one like the white .Those pigment are probaly not the most stable one .Anyway any kind of fixative or varnish on any kind of pigment are not permanent . You have to remove the varnish or the fixative one day to put another one ...i dont think its a good idea on a ocher yidaki. no no no . And i do prefer an untouched yidaki if i am thinking of collecting them as art peices.

dup pu dup
GGW

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 15.05.2006, 08:31 
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Joined: 12.05.2006, 14:34
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Location: Rome,Italy
Guan Lim have suggested me use the PVA glue diluited with water at 50% or less, for protection of ochre decoration on the Yidaki....


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PostPosted: 15.05.2006, 11:04 
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Location: Bantry, Ireland
Hmmm. Did Guan say how to apply the PVA mix to the artwork? I suspect there's more to it than that. Are you sure Guan wasn't talking about mixing a little PVA into the ochre before painting to bind it ?

Guan? Perhaps you could explain ?

My experience of pure ochre, especially white, is that even touching it lightly can leave more ochre on your finger than on the instrument where you touched it - and making it wet in any way often creates smears.

If I want to seal ochre artwork I use a water-based matt Acrylic sealant from an aerosol, with a very fine mist. It dries extremely fast, to the touch within 2 minutes, and so long as only a very small amount is applied at a time, it doesn't drip or smear.


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PostPosted: 15.05.2006, 13:22 
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I quite like the smudged messy look of old sticks. They look nice.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 15.05.2006, 14:21 
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hi there

Quote:
I quite like the smudged messy look of old sticks. They look nice.


They are wonderfull !

Pigment are from vegetable ,mineral, metal ,ect,ect . when you grind them you get a fine powder and then you need a binder if you want to used them .Like in oil painting we can take the same pigment and mix them with oil we get oil painting in a tube . you can grind any kind of pigment and get the medium you want ,oil ,watercolor , dry or oil pastel ,tempera ,caseine, ect ect. Its the binder use that make the diference .

When those white pigments are leaving a residue on your hand it can be because it cant be fix by the binder then you have to find another one for it or it as not the right ammount of pva and water (in this particular case),or as not been mixed enough togheter so when it dry (evaporation ) the pigment (microscopic particules) is not sealed completly by the glue and stay on the support like a dry pastel or if i can say its like you drawing with a chalk it stays but ....,so if you touch it ,you get some residue on your hand depending of the ammount of pigment in the mixt .If you have this on a yidaki you have no choice you have to fix it or dont touch it !. But fixative in long term are dangereous to color and this is another debate .... If you have this problem on a canvas or anykind of support the art conservator would put the art peice under a glass to be protected unstead of fixing the peice.
Man using ocher pigment since prehistoric age , we can see them in cave all arround the world well almost .Those pigment are pure .So we have to accept this way or find another way to paint with them ! or if you want to fix them with fixative ,varnish or anykind of a similar product ,in long term this coat of protection will age and change and also affect the pigment .
Like an oil painting on the wall they remove the old varnish to put a new one ....

I,ve been grinding pigment for the last 25 years and used them in their purest form in what we call dry pastel ,Nothing have been added to them and in 100 years they will be fresh as i made them this morning .

GGW

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 15.05.2006, 14:51 
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Location: Bantry, Ireland
Quote:
I quite like the smudged messy look of old sticks. They look nice.


Agree with you there. But smudged messy new sticks not :wink:

Another of the many didjeridu topics that will never find consensus.

Be that as it may, numerous customers of ours can't understand why a traditionally made stick isn't able to look like new forever and shrug off anything you can throw at it, so we've done a fair bit of research into "invisible" methods of sealing artwork.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 15.05.2006, 15:24 
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hi there


Quote:
Be that as it may, numerous customers of ours can't understand why a traditionally made stick isn't able to look like new forever and shrug off anything you can throw at it, so we've done a fair bit of research into "invisible" methods of sealing artwork.


I fully understand that .Iam also dealing with this on a daily base with art gallery .

We have to learn how to look and understand this form of art and the way its benn made for ages and for that we need people to teach . People can and want to learn . When i do exibition sometime we can see an oil painting beside a dry pastel and its the same subject .Usualy the dry pastel is the study .First reaction of people who dont know what is a pastel is they dont like to see it under a glass and why is this . After some explanation about what is it we can hear some ohhhh and some ahhhh ,now they know .

Art can be sometime transitory....ahhh industrial world.

GGW

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 Post subject: The no-binder yirdaki
PostPosted: 15.05.2006, 23:52 
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Location: Alpine , California
Jason- I had an unusual problem with a yirdaki I purchased- the maker simply "forgot" or the yirdaki had been made possibly for cerimony without any kind of pigmant binder. The lightest touch wiped out the artwork. While my instrements are for play I do what I can to preserve the beautiful stories painted on these treasures. If I did nothing withingweeks all would be lost. Consulting with my art friends I obtained a satin finish spray fixative and did a test spray. It was frightning as the white ochre turned transparen with the moisture and I assumed this wasnt going to work. When dry the color was back- and better yet the satin finish didnt give the work a glossy finished look. Only an expert might notice the coating. I sprayed several coats building up a shield over the loose pigments. The bonded very well- however wear is slowly working into the artwork as it should. Given that pva glue (or egg whites) {makes you wonder what are the effects of those two historical and modern chemicals are on pigments?}are probally the chosen binders I felt comfortable in this approach in attampting preservation of the artwork. Art galleries need to deal with different issues than us and have had a significant problem with color change and been burned by claims of lightfastness. They are therefore very picky about coatings, but they also forget that many old works are not the same colors today than when painted- especially the lead based pigments! Hundred year old didges are beyond rare- we can only protect them for so long.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 17.05.2006, 03:45 
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Hi there

Warnerr i guess in this case you dont have choice to fix it ,and the result is good . What i am worry about its not the pigment those are pretty stable ,fragile but stable ,its the fixative in the next 25 years .Is anybody know a varnish that stay nice forever ?
What i dont understand Warnerr is you have that didgeridoo for a long time and it suddently start to react or he always did that ? And i am interested to see this didge and know more aboutthe artwork ,thanks :)

GGW

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 Post subject: give me 75 years- please!
PostPosted: 17.05.2006, 05:43 
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Location: Alpine , California
This is a didge I aquired about 10 months ago- it arrived flaking powder and quite prone to small cracks. It is a fantastic player but has been my most troublesome didge- very mild compared to GW's djalu didge story. (lots of tung oil/citrus solvent to keep it airtight) . Artists fixative was the least damaging and most stable product I could find- definatly got to be better than pva glue applied as a varnish as is done by some crafters- but there method may indeed outlast this spray! I doubt either method will make it to the 75 year mark- by then the wear marks will have destroyed most the artwork anyways- so it may all be in vain! Here is my baby- great vocals and a great yolgnu/ western crossover player.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 17.05.2006, 09:48 
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Is it possible that we can keep the pics to a sensible width? Like 800px?

I really hate having to scroll left and right to read everything on the page.

This page is now trashed.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 17.05.2006, 10:05 
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Location: Zurich, Switzerland
I was so free to adjust that myself. Hope you don't mind, Warner.

It seem like a max width of 600pixels is the way to go.

Cheers
Christian


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 Post subject: OOPS!
PostPosted: 17.05.2006, 13:50 
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Will do!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 17.05.2006, 19:26 
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Thanks. :D

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