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 Post subject: coating the throat end of a stick
PostPosted: 09.11.2008, 02:54 
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Joined: 04.05.2008, 18:49
Posts: 223
OK I've got this idea and thought it might be wise to check with others first before acting. I bought a Badikupa "ceremonial" grade yidaki recently and got what seems to be a very good deal on it. The bore has absolutely no treatment, no oil of course and not the usual Gurruwiwi family glue zones at the throat and bell ends. I'm wanting to coat the bore with wood glue from the mouthpiece to about 8 inches aka the throat. My reasons are twofold-- the wood in the bore is dry and porous-- so the glue coating will prevent absorption of moisture and cracking (and) I think the sound would benefit from the slight brightening this coating would give. What do you all think? Is this sacrilege...doing "aftermarket" work on a fine Badikupa stick, or is it just being smart and avoiding the dreaded crack?? Thanks for your opinions.


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 Post subject: Re: coating the throat end of a stick
PostPosted: 09.11.2008, 03:22 
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SpookyHollowSticks wrote:
OK I've got this idea and thought it might be wise to check with others first before acting. I bought a Badikupa "ceremonial" grade yidaki recently and got what seems to be a very good deal on it. The bore has absolutely no treatment, no oil of course and not the usual Gurruwiwi family glue zones at the throat and bell ends. I'm wanting to coat the bore with wood glue from the mouthpiece to about 8 inches aka the throat. My reasons are twofold-- the wood in the bore is dry and porous-- so the glue coating will prevent absorption of moisture and cracking (and) I think the sound would benefit from the slight brightening this coating would give. What do you all think? Is this sacrilege...doing "aftermarket" work on a fine Badikupa stick, or is it just being smart and avoiding the dreaded crack?? Thanks for your opinions.


Hi Brian

You know my views on this, however, I wouldn't use pva etc for this little bit of treatment cos I don't like seeing it go white as soon as you huff on it!!! (even the waterproof pva does this) If you are just doing the part you mentioned then I would use about 4 coats of danish oil, this is totally waterproof and will give good protection in this delicate area. Don't get me wrong , I would never treat a trad instrument completely with this stuff but for what you need I can think of nothing better

Paul

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 Post subject: Re: coating the throat end of a stick
PostPosted: 09.11.2008, 03:54 
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Joined: 04.05.2008, 18:49
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Paul-- looks like you and I are the only ones on the forum. I've never heard of "Danish oil" except on this board, and I suspect we have it in the states but it goes by a different name. Yes, I know what you mean about the throat turning white after a few breaths-- I guess a couple of my magos have PVA because that's exactly how they react. In one way it is useful because it allows me to gauge moisture buildup and could tell me when its time to change sticks. Yeah, I definitely won't do the whole bore but the throat area makes sense as for some reason yidakis have a tendency to develop cracks about 8 inches down from the mouth. I'll research the Danish Oil but it sounds like it doesn't dry out and form an epoxy like barrier over the wood. In a way, I really want to brighten the tone a bit and give it a bit more of an edge-- in its current form it is a bit dirty and muffled sounding.


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 Post subject: Re: coating the throat end of a stick
PostPosted: 09.11.2008, 12:29 
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Joined: 02.07.2008, 13:40
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hi.. this might be a novice question.. why does djalu coat the ends with glue. ok, as u wrote, the throat zone is against cracking, but the bell? the bell isnt that much "fogged" as upper parts (cause of the opening?), or are they?

i thought that waterproof glue dont show this effect of getting white...? hmm. while i'm thinking of this, i guess one of my instruments have such a throat coating too. :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: coating the throat end of a stick
PostPosted: 09.11.2008, 13:07 
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Joined: 17.03.2006, 21:22
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Hi all

Many instruments from Arnhemland have indeed ends that are covered with simple PVA wood glue, ususally just one fingerlength down the bore. The reason is the same as why split didj makers cover the ends of the drying logs with paint or glue or another sealer: the cracking always starts from the ends and covering the first few cm of the insides of bell and mouthpiece greatly reduces that risk on the logs that are traditionally cut green and wet! The traditional makers in Northeast Arnhemland regularly do that these days, the makers from West Arnhemland less often. To be honest we sometimes do that to instruments from West Arnhemland ourselves if we have the feeling that leaving the ends "naked" is too risky - smearing a bit of glue on the ends is still the much lesser intervention than having to repair a larger crack. Water proof PVA does turn white too in the beginning but that goes away by time, especially if you oil the instrument and the oil builds an additional layer on top of the glue. The ends usually turn less white because they get less direct impact from moisture than the mouthpieces.


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 Post subject: Re: coating the throat end of a stick
PostPosted: 09.11.2008, 23:20 
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So Christian...I was just thinking about how oiling a stick might negatively affect the glue coating at the throat and bell...does the oil have any effect on the glue layer, like a chemical effect which might soften, discolor, or break down the glue??


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 Post subject: Re: coating the throat end of a stick
PostPosted: 09.11.2008, 23:38 
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Brian, I did not observe any adverse effects from my oiling on my personal sticks that have coated ends so far. My most frequently used stick has a coated mouthpiece end, has been oiled repeatedly and is going strong since 2002.


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 Post subject: Re: coating the throat end of a stick
PostPosted: 10.11.2008, 00:38 
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SpookyHollowSticks wrote:
Paul I'll research the Danish Oil but it sounds like it doesn't dry out and form an epoxy like barrier over the wood. In a way, I really want to brighten the tone a bit and give it a bit more of an edge-- in its current form it is a bit dirty and muffled sounding.


Contrary to the "oil" label Danish oil does dry out and quite quickly too (about 24hrs). it is a very thin varnish like substance (there is some tung oil in there) that really soaks into the wood and forms a completely waterproof barrier. You could put a dozen thin coats on and wouldn't really notice a build up. I use it a lot in general wood working to give a finish and it never looks like the wood is "varnished" just looks like it has had good polish. if you were to danish oil a complete instrument you could theoretically play it underwater without any adverse effects!!!! I reckon oiling the entire instrument with Tung oil will do the trick though.

Paul

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 Post subject: Re: coating the throat end of a stick
PostPosted: 10.11.2008, 00:41 
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SpookyHollowSticks wrote:
current form it is a bit dirty and muffled sounding.


Just a thought, there is nothing stuck in the bore is there, a lump of Arnhem Land mud?? etc cos I have a stick like that which after a poke around a big lump of iy fell out and now its a gem

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 Post subject: Re: coating the throat end of a stick
PostPosted: 10.11.2008, 04:56 
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Nah, its just the way it sounds. Its got a long, very narrow bore and the inner walls are smooth not rough. It is just one of those cases where just a slight change in the sound would really suit my tastes.


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