THE SERIOUS STICKS DIDJERIDU FORUM

WELCOME !
It is currently 15.11.2018, 16:32

All times are UTC + 1 hour




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 160 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 29.06.2007, 18:33 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 23.06.2006, 15:36
Posts: 625
Location: Manchester England
Being the initiator if this thread...........

I didn't intend for the debate to turn out like this, really all I was looking for was assurances that craftsmen are getting a decent deal and possibly opening up a healthy debate on the issue

My final thoughts:

Whilst I don't agree with the direction this thread has taken in terms of the personal content, I still strongly feel that its right this issue was raised

I never suggested there was anything underhand going on. Equally however I would never just assume that craftsmen are getting a decent slice simply based on my own experiences of purchasing sticks outside of Arnhemland

And I have to say again that whilst people on the SS forum quick to defend yolgnu rights and condemn infringements on there culuture the intial response was suprising poor

Where i do strongly agree with Loretta in the wider picture is that we all have power over where our money goes

I just felt this was an important issue, certainly more so than debating the rights and wrongs of somebody in europe painting a didj in a yolgnu style design

But hell that's just me


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 29.06.2007, 19:32 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 18.03.2006, 00:50
Posts: 750
Location: Canada
Hi there

Quote:
I just felt this was an important issue, certainly more so than debating the rights and wrongs of somebody in europe painting a didj in a yolgnu style design


To me both are !

GGW

_________________
Le bonheur d'etre libre
La liberté d'etre heureux


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 29.06.2007, 20:12 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 18.03.2006, 03:07
Posts: 1732
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
I don't dispute that this was an important debate to have, because it did bring to light the methodology employed by resellers when they fix the prices of their instruments, as well as begin a good discussion about the way in which revenue from the sale of Aboriginal art and craft is used to the benefit of the communities. Through the sale of traditional art and craft direct from the artists themselves, as in the case of BLM and other art centres governed by ANKAA, the communities benefit through increased awareness and recognition of those local artists, educational initiatives and training, healthcare, etc. From a personal standpoint, I suspect that these initiatives are further reaching and more beneficial to the communities than state benefits, in terms of personal worth and satisfaction. Do I know where every penny is dispersed? No, however, the information is there through documents accessible through the local land councils and ANKAA, and they may certainly be worth seeking out if only to satisfy your own curiosity. I think may do so, as an exercise.

And I certainly don't disagree with anything you say, Stan, about wanting to understand where the money that we spend goes. It is good to think critically about how the system works, but my own worldview doesn't assume that everyone is being exploited all the time. This doesn't preclude me from recognizing that exploitation does exist in the world, but I've learned to read the writing on the wall, or at least think I do.

Certainly these are important issues and it's good that we are discussing them.


Last edited by flyangler18 on 29.06.2007, 21:49, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 29.06.2007, 20:31 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 23.01.2007, 19:58
Posts: 112
Location: Los Angeles
It's a good question, Paul. It was responded to pretty quickly by Kyle and Christian. Christian wrote:

"Kyle's equation is basically right, the art centers that I know pay about half of their sales price to the maker. But one thing he forgot is that the other half goes back to the community in various ways like education programs, material for the artists like brushes, colours etc., employment opportunities etc. The art centers we source instruments from are all non-profit centers, the coordinators are employed by the community with a fixed salary and all the remaining revenue goes back to the community. So in reality it's probably 90% of the sales price that goes back to the artist and the community. "

Christian raises the point about the portion of funding that goes back to the Art Center and community. Knowing that the artists are getting paid 50% of what the Art Center sells it for should have answered the question straight away. If you disagree that the % is less than they deserve, I can understand that. I will reiterate that I see no evidence that the artist feels he/she is getting screwed by a non-for-profit Art Center. No smoke, no fire...

Daniel pointing out ANKAAA's association with the Art Centers only helps to point out that the artists have an advocacy group looking out for them, as well.

Thanks for raising the question.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 29.06.2007, 22:00 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 22.03.2006, 20:18
Posts: 195
Location: California USA
Paul wrote:
And I have to say again that whilst people on the SS forum quick to defend yolgnu rights and condemn infringements on there culuture the intial response was suprising poor


Actually, I have been silent because I thought the responses from Randy, Kyle and John/Chris were reasonable.
However, since additional replies are solicited, I will say that yes, we do vote with our purchases. I believe that, and I live that. I believe in compassionate living, so my food and clothing and shelter contain no animal parts that I am aware of. I try to apply this principal of compassionate and intentional living to many other aspect of my life as well. Sometimes I wish more folks agreed with this, but they must make their own choices just as I must make mine. I accept them as they are.

I buy my bread from the local baker, who I trust to use good grain and practices. I do not ask him to prove what he paid for the grain, nor submit shipping manifests and other paperwork to me before I purchase his bread.
Because I trust him.
I trust many people to behave in a responsible manner, and having sussed out many sources of Yidaki, I trust these gentlemen and a few others to conduct their business in an honorable manner.

On the subject of fair (Yidaki) trade, I am a bit less sure. It would be nice to believe that we can insure that the crafter gets 90% of the net profit, but in reality I don't think that is possible.
There are just too many variables, too many unpredictable circumstances that can beset the seller, whether it's shipping damage, cracking, or maybe just a stick that has been gathering dust too long and needs to be discounted to move it.
And I wonder if the individual craftsman would want his reimbursment amount made public at all. *

When I make and sell a split and hollow didj (just a hobby) I base the price on many things; time, material, and significantly my perception of the connection between the stick and the potential new owner.
If I later find out that stick was resold for more money, I might think about raising my prices. Or maybe not. It's my choice.
While I realize my situation is not exactly analogous to that of the Yolngu, the truth is that we both have a choice and personal decision to make for ourselves.

namaste,
robert
*edited by me for grammer


Last edited by kellymon on 30.06.2007, 16:48, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 30.06.2007, 09:40 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 23.06.2006, 15:36
Posts: 625
Location: Manchester England
GGW wrote

Quote:
To me both are !


Then why didn't you get involved in this issue when I first raised it?

Paul


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 30.06.2007, 11:19 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 20.03.2006, 10:41
Posts: 1503
Location: UK
Paul,

Richard has always been active when it comes to non-Aboriginals painting Aboriginal motifs on sticks and he raised this issue in another thread some time ago.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 30.06.2007, 13:02 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 23.06.2006, 15:36
Posts: 625
Location: Manchester England
Apologies Richard i didn't realise you had raised issues of ethical trading previously


I suppose I was just a little surprised by the initial lack of input


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 30.06.2007, 13:26 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 23.06.2006, 15:36
Posts: 625
Location: Manchester England
I've just re-read this and I think we may be at cross purposes here.

Richard, I'm certainly not knocking you for raising issues of copying art. I know you have raised this previously. I suspect I have different views on this topic but its obviously something you are passionate about and that is comendable.

What I am saying is that if you consider the issue of ethical trade as also important why the lack of input?

I'm just curious

If this is a topic have raised in previous post / forums, once again my apologies

Paul


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 01.07.2007, 22:35 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 02.05.2006, 03:21
Posts: 632
I'll put my hand up here and say I am not very well informed.

I plan to rememedy that, especially off the back of reading the letter to all Hick's sticks users.

Dan


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 02.07.2007, 03:42 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 18.03.2006, 00:50
Posts: 750
Location: Canada
Hi there

No worry Paul no need to apologize .I did write my point of view to your question http://forum.serioussticks.com/viewtopi ... c&start=30

And as for copying art well i've been very active on the french forum because it came to a point it was well needed .Yes i admit im a liitle sensitive about this subject as my own art as been copyed and sell without i touch anything,and even steal i mean by this that an art Gallery in a canadian city have bought from my agency some of my dry pastel erased my name and put another artist name with a higher price list .I,m not hitting on a guy who just paint his stick like Djalu but i will explain to him politly what this can mean for other and the artist himself .Sometime i just been said to go to hell and was an extremist. See i do beleive if we are copying or stealling art from another culture it come to a point that same form of expression no longuer belong to this culture it become just something popular without much value .



GGW

_________________
Le bonheur d'etre libre
La liberté d'etre heureux


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 02.07.2007, 09:15 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 23.06.2006, 15:36
Posts: 625
Location: Manchester England
Bloody Hell

Sounds like youv'e had some real problems with your own art

I do sympaphise richard, that must really piss you off when its your own work

I hope the situation improves


Paul


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 02.07.2007, 10:04 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 20.03.2006, 10:41
Posts: 1503
Location: UK
You sure go on a lot for someone whose final thoughts were 5 postings ago Paul. :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 02.07.2007, 11:18 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 23.06.2006, 15:36
Posts: 625
Location: Manchester England
Eh! What can I say!

Verbal Diarrhea


Looks like you made a good move heading for Hawaii this weekend, July is promising to be a complete wash out :cry: :cry:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 02.07.2007, 11:34 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 18.03.2006, 21:53
Posts: 789
Thats diarrhoea unless of course you're now a fellow of the good ol' US of A instead of a Manc :lol:

Kyle move out of that place before you have a little one with a funny walk and dodgy spelling.

:lol:

Luv ya reely Porl

Kv


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 160 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11  Next

All times are UTC + 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group. Color scheme by ColorizeIt.