THE SERIOUS STICKS DIDJERIDU FORUM

WELCOME !
It is currently 15.11.2018, 16:31

All times are UTC + 1 hour




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 160 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 11  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Fair (Fur) Trade
PostPosted: 10.05.2007, 10:34 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 23.06.2006, 15:36
Posts: 625
Location: Manchester England
Hi Y'all


I,ve been thinking of opening up discussions on this topic for a while now but have held off because I didn't want to put anyone in ackward position

Apologies in advance if this is the case but I think it is something that as buyers of authentic cultural products we should consider:

I've noticed the price of some yidaki hitting the £600 / £700 mark ($1300 US)

This is a considerable amount of cash, I could walk into a music shop and buy a seriously wicked bass with this

I'm not knocking prices, I've bought a number of really good trad sticks (thanks to my dealer) and got a great deal of pleasure from playing them

I have been wondering lately however: What % of the sales price to the end user actually finds its way back to the craftsman who made the stick?

Please Please Please don't think I'm suggesting anyone is activley trying to exploit makers!
It would be reasuring however to know that makers are getting a fair price for their work

Paulo


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 10.05.2007, 10:56 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 18.03.2006, 21:53
Posts: 789
That's a fur question Paul. I guess Randin or Guan might be the best to say.

If a stick is sold for say Aus$400 from Yirrkala Arts what sort of share of that does the maker receive? I'm assuming (perhaps wrongly) the art centre takes some sort of management/commission fees if nothing esle.

Kev


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fair (Fur) Trade
PostPosted: 10.05.2007, 11:02 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 20.03.2006, 10:41
Posts: 1503
Location: UK
Paul wrote:
What % of the sales price to the end user actually finds its way back to the craftsman who made the stick?


Can of worms my friend!

This is a difficult question to answer as generally the instruments are purchased from Art Centres or primarly dealers who pay the maker/artist directly. If we base our calculations on 100% mark-ups (which I feel may be too excessive) then we could infer that the maker would receive about 25% of the final price (i.e. Artist sells stick to Art Centre for $100 - Art Centre sells the stick to a dealer/reseller for $200 - Dealer sells stick for $400).

If other attributes are taken into consideration when determining value you can throw this theory out the window!

At the end of the day the market sets the price. If the buying public feel dealers are pricing their sticks too high they won't buy them!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 10.05.2007, 11:11 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 23.06.2006, 15:36
Posts: 625
Location: Manchester England
I know its a tricky one Kyle

I also know that for dealers to import sticks and hold stock isn't cheap by any stretch! I certainly don't think any dealer of trad sticks makes enough out of it to live the first class life style :( :( :( :( :( :(

your right in that if a stick is over priced it basically won't sell!

The market sets the price for many products worldwide and consumers are getting more involved in "fairtrade" ethics.

Maybe I'll stick to fairtrade coffee :P :P :P :P :P :P

Later

Paulo


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 10.05.2007, 11:16 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 20.03.2006, 10:41
Posts: 1503
Location: UK
And I'll get into 'fur trade' which is much more controversial!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 10.05.2007, 12:40 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 17.03.2006, 21:22
Posts: 1002
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Kyle's equation is basically right, the art centers that I know pay about half of their sales price to the maker. But one thing he forgot is that the other half goes back to the community in various ways like education programs, material for the artists like brushes, colours etc., employment opportunities etc. The art centers we source instruments from are all non-profit centers, the coordinators are employed by the community with a fixed salary and all the remaining revenue goes back to the community. So in reality it's probably 90% of the sales price that goes back to the artist and the community.

When considering retail pricing of resellers like us, one has to take into account the transport, customs and taxes, the risk of an instrument getting damaged on transport etc. etc., treating them with oil or other stuff. But what finally may one motivate to buy from a local dealer is the chance to try the instrument. If you order an instrument from Australia and it doesn't meet expectation, it's a rather costly thing: the instrument may have been cheaper than from your local retailer but you'll have to pay £40 on transport, 27% VAT on instrument and transport plus customs. In the end, it may well be worth to pay more at first sight and having a chance to try it than to make expensive mistakes.

Fact is, as already mentioned by others, that if we take all the hours invested, we might probably get better hourly rates working on Paul's fair trade coffe plantations :wink:


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 10.05.2007, 15:49 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 18.03.2006, 03:07
Posts: 1732
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
This is definitely a can of worms, but one worth investigating.

As Christian rightly pointed out, the art centres are community-owned/operated ventures that funnel monies back into the communities for various educational and health programs, cultural projects, etc.

It's difficult to assess value, but the market drives the majority of it. Certain instruments may command a high dollar amount through such variables as artistic merit, sound quality, construction and reputation of the maker themselves. VAT doesn't apply to importers in the States, thankfully, but customs and freight charges need to be incorporated into the selling price.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 13.05.2007, 03:37 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 21.03.2006, 12:48
Posts: 355
Location: Salt Lake City? Really? How did that happen?
Normal markup at Buku is approximately a 60-40 split in the artist's favour for normal retail prices, but then the government gets its tax, so it's more like 60-30-10. As has been mentioned, there's a lot of expenses on the way to the resellers.

Especially with yidaki, I'm trying to offer better wholesale prices these days so prices come down a bit at all of the resellers and they're more motivated to do more business direct with the community.

Meanwhile, I'm raising retail prices to be more in line with overseas prices so that Buku no longer competes with and undercuts our much valued resellers, and so that it covers the increased discounts to resellers. We're also just way too busy and there's lots of difficulties in shipping individual instruments such a long way, so I'm trying to get Buku out of retail yidaki sales over the internet, to just be a wholesaler so you can support your local business and still know that you're supporting the original artists as best as you possibly can.

_________________
-Randin Graves


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 13.05.2007, 12:16 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 20.03.2006, 10:41
Posts: 1503
Location: UK
Sounds good Randy. Thanks for the more detailed breakdown as well.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 14.05.2007, 11:00 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 23.06.2006, 15:36
Posts: 625
Location: Manchester England
Thanks for the responsem one and all

Its good to hear that prophets are being re-invested into the community!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 14.05.2007, 11:15 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 18.03.2006, 03:07
Posts: 1732
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Quote:
Its good to hear that prophets are being re-invested into the community!


Don't know about prophets, but I know profits are welcomed!


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 14.05.2007, 11:16 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 20.03.2006, 10:41
Posts: 1503
Location: UK
I didn't see many Prophets when I was in Arnhem Land, but maybe things have changed since then.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 14.05.2007, 19:15 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 18.03.2006, 13:53
Posts: 925
Location: Bantry, Ireland
Quote:
I've noticed the price of some yidaki hitting the £600 / £700 mark


Us too ;-)

Without spilling too many worms left right and centre, my pennysworth:

Assuming I was buying retail, I would definitely not pay that sort of money for a stick, as if you look about a little, you can find equally excellent instruments for way less, guess where for example ;-)

We're back to the "if it costs more, it must be better" theme. Erm, no, or maybe at most. Our experience is often otherwise, especially so if you're going for a good player rather than a collector's piece.

We are often asked by surprised customers trying our stock how we fix our prices. Quite simply, based on what we paid. As we both have regular jobs and Serious Sticks is a hobby, we don't have to consider how much we could mark up. If we get a real bargain, you do too. Other dealers are less fortunate in this respect and are trying to survive on selling sticks. Or more fortunate, depending on how you see it, as they don't have to sit in an office all day ;-) Up to everyone to decide where their sympathies lie and how much they can stretch to.

A final note: I just thought I'd point out that higher prices often mean instruments have passed through a middleman, and it's not necessarily the retailer who's whacked on a huge markup. If you buy from a reputable dealer who's dealing direct with the art centres, then a higher percentage of your money will end up with the makers and their people.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 22.06.2007, 20:35 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 18.03.2006, 21:38
Posts: 572
Location: In ya flower bed...
One word comes to mind... USURY

_________________

didgethings . . . . Myspace . . . . Youtube



Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 25.06.2007, 14:48 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 18.03.2006, 21:38
Posts: 572
Location: In ya flower bed...
Normally i get several people shouting down every sentence i write on here, but for once no one seems to have anything to say.

???

_________________

didgethings . . . . Myspace . . . . Youtube



Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 160 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 11  Next

All times are UTC + 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group. Color scheme by ColorizeIt.